0:00 Welcome back to episode number five with Charles from North Korea. At this point, he's had his second escape and he was connected with a missionary who helps North Koreans uh get out of there and acclimate to I guess like the outside society. What did this missionary person do for you exactly? >> He uh he connected me to Well, a missionary person gave me money to get to my dad's house. So, he talked to the Chinese guy >> and your dad's house was in China. >> Yeah. Yeah. So uh so my uh so I I told the missionaries it's like I have no intention of going to South Korea because I know that like if you get captured while trying to go to South Korea again I'm like I'm traumatized right uh from going through all the interrogation process and >> and all the propaganda too. >> Yeah. Seeing people getting beat up uh like like they're like questioning are
0:51 you should I go to South Korea? Right. And then also like propaganda too. It's like yeah I don't want to go to South Korea. I I'm just looking for my dad. And then the Chinese guy was like as the South Korean missionary was like, "Okay, if I were to give you money and and give you a bus ticket, can you find your dad's house?" Like when the bus goes to Hun. So I was like, "Yeah, I can do that." >> Wait, is this was Hun like not the city that like you basically when you cross? >> No. I I So So geographically, so think about like this is a map of North like a North Korea at the and the border town, right? Like here >> the the city that I crossed is like right up here. Uh-huh. >> Kung Chun is like right up here. So you guys know where uh North Korea, China, and Russia meet >> right there. >> So you're saying the very first time you escaped, you also went to this same spot. You got in your dad's car or the taxi and then you guys drove to this city
1:41 >> 12 hours. >> So now So now you're like somewhere like three miles walking or and then many hours of motorcycle somewhere else and then you got to figure out how to get down to this city which you've only lived there for nine months and you're figuring out how to get there by yourself. >> No. Oh. Uh, so the Chinese guy put me on a bus from I don't know what city cuz I was lost, right? And um the the guy who picked me up, I think he took me to his hometown city. >> And from that city, I was able to get on a bus that is going to Hun is a is a town, a different town where my dad lived. >> How do you say that in Chinese? >> Hun. Hun. Yeah. Hun. It's like a It's a It's in Zillian province. It's like right next to North Korea, too. >> Oh, wow. >> It's like right next to North Korea. And it actually uh it actually borders Russia too. Yeah. Russia, North Korea. And then >> that's where all the white people came
2:31 from. >> Yeah. That's where the white people came from actually. Yeah. Yeah. And then uh and then uh Yeah. So he put me on a bus to my dad's house. Um my dad's city. And then I went there and then my dad whips out a belt. What the uh he was asking me, did you kill a person in North Korea? because it doesn't make sense. Like, you know, like 16, 17 year old kid risking his life crossing the international border. Like, you must have done something pretty bad. >> You didn't want to be like, "You made me do it two years ago. What are you talking about?" >> Oh, so he thought you were bringing trouble to him. >> Yeah. He didn't I mean, my dad lived in China over 10 years. He doesn't speak any Chinese. He doesn't have a job. >> What? He lived off of uh allowance uh from uh my halfsister. Yeah, he was a
3:23 Yeah, he was a >> piece of >> Yeah, piece of Yeah. Yeah. I I don't like >> Damn. >> I don't I don't really I don't really know him, right? Um he may Yeah, there's a whole another story, but he's a psychologically, physically, emotionally abusive person. He He was an alcoholic. Um one time he almost made me drink his pee. >> What? as like a punishment. >> as a punishment. Yeah. Um and uh he beat me so hard with a fire poker that it actually bent and then my my head crack like my my head cracked. It was bleeding. Uh and it was a winter too. Uh it was a winter uh in November. It was really cold in China. Uh and we had a bucket outside and then uh the water in the bucket and the the water froze, right? So he had me grabb a axe and break the ice and then he dragged me
4:14 outside, right? like on underwear. >> Um and because like he beat me and I'm bleeding so he wanted to clean the blood. So he got the a ladle. >> Yeah. >> A small ladle and then he pour cold water ice water on my head slowly wound >> as a Yeah. on my to to wash the blood away, >> right? As a to a method of torture basically. >> Oh god. >> Yeah. He was abusive. Um our families like nobody talks to anybody right now. I I mean like I don't really know because like my my maternal sides are basically dead. Uh and then my paternal sides are basically Chinese but they abandon us like long time ago. So it's like >> yeah anyway so I don't talk to him anymore. Um when I first came to America I remembered his phone number. I called him. Uh I was again I was in high
5:05 school. I called, "Hey dad, I'm finally in America, you know, blah blah blah." He's like, "Can you send me money?" >> Oh my god. like what a horrible person. >> I'm in I'm in high school. Like do you think I make money right now? I was like no. Uh and then I was like okay yeah that's it. Like I don't want to do this anymore. So I cut cut off contact with him like 2013. Yeah. And I I I forgave him you know for all the abuse and all the um I blame him a lot for my mom's death. >> Uh because like you know he didn't >> come back to us. Didn't do anything. Yeah. >> Yeah. But, you know, I I appreciate, you know, he giving birth to me, you know, but I think that's that's a >> Yeah, that's all. >> What about your uh other like siblings? Do you ever try to get in contact with them? >> I don't want to. >> You don't want to? >> Yeah. I mean, like >> they're in China. >> Uh two one of them is in China, two of
5:57 them is back in North Korea, one of them is in South Korea. >> Wow. >> Yeah. So, and one of like it's our family is like >> Yeah. They're spread out. So, so you went to your dad, he beat the out of you for however long, and then you somehow got shipped off to like other countries. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, so even though my dad was an ass, he's like, you know, I uh if if you're going to stay here, I mean, I can't really take care of you. You know, I don't even have a job. I'm living off of allowance from, you know, his his first daughter. Um, so he eventually found a broker that uh takes North Korean refugees from China to South Korea. these are nonprofit organizations like there's a lot of nonprofit organizations that are in South Korea doing these kind of things or even just like doing it just to make money. >> Um so I was introduced one of those broker lines through my dad and then
6:48 those people uh eventually brought me to Thailand safely. Yeah. >> And then in Thailand like basically you're you're free. >> How come they go to Thailand? Is that because that's the easiest place to get some sort of citizenship or >> asylum claim? >> Yeah. There is an international refugee uh detention center in Thailand. >> Oh >> yeah. So that's where everybody goes because Thailand is actually mutual mutual ne m ne m ne m ne m ne m ne m ne m ne m ne m ne m neutral >> neutral >> neutral to both countries. >> Uh there is a t in Thailand there's a North Korean embassy in Thailand. >> Whoa. >> So was South Korean embassy. But here's the funny part. >> When you go to Thailand, >> Thailand does not recognize North Korea and South Korea as two different countries. Just the Korea. and then they will deport you back to Korea because you enter Thailand without proper
7:38 documents illegally. >> Uh instead of deporting them back to North Korea, South Korea >> cuz there's only one Korea. >> Yeah, there's only one Korea, right? It's like Yeah. Um Yeah. So >> So is that the play for you to be like, "Oh, I'm defecting from one Korea. Send me back to one Korea." And that's like their their kind of like loophole in the >> system. Yeah. Um It's kind of I I guess so. I don't know much about like that kind of politics. This is like the thing that I know. >> Um but like South Korea has like this systems too where like up until like a few years ago, North Korea did not recognize North Korea as an official state. Um North Korean people are South Korean people, but they are held uh to the like um um like a regime, right? Like
8:28 against their will. So whenever North Korean refugees comes to South Korea, they get citizen citizenship right away and then they get housing, stipens, education, and all of those kind of things. Um I wanted to go to South Korea, too. Uh but I couldn't go to South Korea. Uh because South Korean government said, "Oh yeah, your uh father is Chinese. Uh therefore it makes you Chinese, too." >> So your dad's still getting you. >> Exactly. And he's like, "Yeah, we're going to send you back to China." >> No way. >> And I was like, "Yeah, I told him like Yeah. Well, if you were to send me chi, >> that's literally where I came from. >> Yeah. And I'm going to die. No, no, no. Like, I'm going to die. Like, just kill me here now. If you were to send me back to China in Thailand, please. >> Yeah. And then they were like, oh, we'd love to help you, but we cannot change the law. >> Oh my god. >> So, I was like, >> what am I supposed to do? And he's like, well, so so and and and that's like, you
9:19 know, a life-changing kind of like a advice. It's like South Korea is not the only way. >> Uh, he told me that. I was like, "Oh, >> I wonder what that what's that mean?" And then um on I I remember one day uh in the Thai Thailand uh so instead of the it's you say it's a refugee detention center. It's like a prison basically. It's like but it was far better than North Korean prison. >> They fed us three meals a day. >> Also like a hotel. >> Exactly. Glorified vacation. Like you can sleep as long as you want. You don't have to do hard manual labor. They give you white rice, chicken soup, and egg. >> Wow. >> I was like, "Holy crap. I can stay here as like forever." >> I'm home. >> Yeah. I was like, "You don't need to work."
10:09 >> Yeah. >> Don't send me to Korea. Just keep me here. >> Yeah. Can I just stay here? >> I like this place. >> Don't send me back to China, too. I just I will just stay here. You know, it's like a bad I'm a bad boy. Keep me in prison. So, what did he mean by there's more than just South Korea? >> Yeah. So, um, and then he told me that he didn't specifically say what and where, but I realized, okay, I've got to talk to you when. So, I remember um every like every like once a week uh we come down uh to like a courtyard and then we're doing exercise or we're running because like we're always like cuz there's like a in Thailand it's hot. is like a people are just like crammed into one gigantic prison. Uh and we're just literally like um laying down that like laying like a freaking >> sardines. >> Sardines. Yes. >> Well, there's no place to move.
11:00 >> There is not it's not that uh it's not that big. >> You guys sleep like that too? >> Yeah. Yeah, we sleep like a And again, it's hot. >> Yeah. >> And it's the constantly like the fan is constantly moving. Is loud. People are smoking. It's like people crying. people, you know, just like crazy people like talking to the wall, you know, just walking around. I I didn't mind that at all actually cuz like, hey, as long as they feed me, I don't care. >> Still better. Everyone's chilling here. >> Yeah, that's some You're just chilling. This is like five star for you. Everybody's having the hardest time. You're like, "Dude, that's all so sad." >> Yeah. I mean, it makes sense like to have that level of freedom right now. I If I would go back to prison now, I'm going to go crazy. I'd be the first one to go crazy, man. I'm spoiled. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But uh but like to have that kind of
11:50 that level of freedom and to not have it, it's just like you're going crazy. Um and then I remember like I I remember grabbing my shoes and then started banging on the on the on the um >> the bars. >> The bars. Yeah. And then I >> You just testing the fact that you had thick shoes. >> Yeah. It's like it's good quality. Is this is this a better quality than North Korean quality? Old winter style. Huh? Uh, no. And then, uh, I was I was yelling in Korean like, "I want to talk to someone. I want to talk to someone." And then a Korean lady that was working at UN because, you know, uh, in Thailand refugee camp, they're at UN as well. And there are like all different languages. And then the Korean lady came to me and like, "What do you want?" I was like, "Oh, I want to talk to you because, you know, I'm an old North Korean director, blah, blah, blah." I told her all the stories. And and then she's like, "Oh, wait. Uh, let me get you to uh, speak to someone else." And then I was a minor at
12:41 the time. my birth again like I stayed in the detention center the longest uh out of all of my cohorts out of the history of you know uh South Kore like North Korean defectors going to South Korea. >> You hold the record for staying there the longest. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I have the like the longest record which is like three months. People goes to go to South Korea like the latest like two months, right? The earliest like two weeks. I stayed for three months. I was sad. I I thought about killing myself to there, like not eating it, you know, it's like banging my head. >> Um but you know, I'm glad I didn't. Um and then um I stayed there longest and then I got introduced to UN and then I talked to uh some people from UN and then they eventually decided you're
13:31 going to go to America because your situation sucks. Let me help you. >> Yeah. And then George W. Bush actually signed uh the paper saying we're going to accept North Korean people as refugees. >> Wow. George W came through. >> Yeah. George Bush signed that and >> pretty chill that guy. >> And then Obama actually accepted me into America, right? And here's here's the fun part too. >> If you want to come to America in from the the Thai prison, right? Cuz there's a lot of people who's like, I've seen this guy who spent over 10 years in that sardine can waiting for America to give him an interview. >> 10 years. >> Over 10 years. Yeah. Yeah. He was he was getting old uh in the prison. It's extremely difficult to come to
14:21 America. >> Why Why was he why was he taking so or why did his case take so long? Um I think it's like a some like a middle middle eastern and I think there's like some conflict you know um >> oh geopolitical conflicts probably and that's crazy >> and then yeah there's so many people who wants to come to America but America wouldn't give him give them an interview like minimum wait time wait period is two years just to get first interview for me two weeks. >> Wow. >> Wow. How come? Yeah, because I was a I was a minor at the time. I was a kid. And then on top of that, I'm verified, right? It's like every like all the sources are there like, hey, he's a North Korean defector. He got captured. He was sent back to North Korea. He skipped again and then he finally came here. And then I was like cuz like I mean I don't know if CIA is working with
15:11 China or whatever. I don't know. But like I told everything and hey if you go to this China like this prison like you I you know I did my handprints my fingerprints and your pictures and I gave them like all the things that they need. >> Um and then the fact that I was a child two weeks at first interview uh the month two I was getting vaccinated and then 6 months later I came to America. Yeah. So my birthday is in October 1st. Uh, and I came to America September 21st. >> So 10 days. If I were to miss it by 10 days, >> they would just >> And then I would have to wait 2 years. >> Oh my god, dude. >> Barely. >> It's like speaking of like what are the chances? >> Miracles. Seriously. >> Yeah. So, uh, because of because I came to America as a minor, I've gotten a lot
16:02 of benefits from nonprofits like foster care. Um, I did not like the foster care system. >> Yeah, it's not great. >> Where was the first place they send you to in America? >> Uh, my foster parents house. >> What city? >> Conquer. Yeah. >> Conquer, California. Yeah. Yeah. I I I grew up in NorCal. Yeah. >> Dude, that's so cool. The first place. Oh, nice. >> Yeah. And then I went to Conquer High as a as an adult. >> Oh, man. >> Were they cool? Your your foster parents? >> Mhm. They only did it because of money. Uh because they get paid to do it. >> Yeah. Uh that my foster dad that he was a nice guy, but he straight up told me, "Oh yeah, I'm doing this because I want to open up a restaurant." >> Whoa. >> At least he was honest with you. >> Yeah. >> I don't care. I mean, like, hey, anything is better than going going back to North Korea. >> He goes, "They pay me double cuz you're
16:53 from North Korea." Well, we're going to cut right there and then uh next video we're going to get into Charles's life in conquered
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